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      <title>Making Light :: Texts, 2009 :: comments</title>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#comments </link>
      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:15:49 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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      <title>Texts, 2009</title>
      <description>Luke 2:1-14, Anglo-Saxon (via): So&amp;#254;lice on &amp;#254;am dagum w&amp;#230;s geworden gebod fram &amp;#254;am casere Augusto, &amp;#254;&amp;#230;t eall ymbehwyrft w&amp;#230;re tomearcod....</description>
      <content:encoded>Luke 2:1-14, Anglo-Saxon (via): So&#254;lice on &#254;am dagum w&#230;s geworden gebod fram &#254;am casere Augusto, &#254;&#230;t eall ymbehwyrft w&#230;re tomearcod....</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html</link>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #1 from xeger</title>
         <description>comment from xeger on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.wkfinetools.com/wWorking/z_reading/2009-Christmas/1921-Jesus__the_carpenter_of_Nazareth.pdf" rel="nofollow">Jesus the carpenter of Nazareth</a></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 12:15 AM by xeger&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390760</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:15:49 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #2 from David DeLaney</title>
         <description>comment from David DeLaney on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"and wild and sweet / the words repeat" - thank you.</p>

<p>Merry Christmas to all... and to all a good rest of the night!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  1:11 AM by David DeLaney&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390774</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:11:19 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #3 from MacAllister</title>
         <description>comment from MacAllister on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfiqrkV_ZqI" rel="nofollow">Irn Bru Christmas</a></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  1:55 AM by MacAllister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390788</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 01:55:31 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #4 from Dr Paisley</title>
         <description>comment from Dr Paisley on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And thank you and Patrick, for providing such a wonderful place to hang out.</p>

<p>What is missing from all this is a proper cover version of "Deck Us All With Boston Charlie." Perhaps Whisperado can work on that for their Christmas album.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  2:21 AM by Dr Paisley&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390793</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:21:07 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #5 from Nicholas Whyte</title>
         <description>comment from Nicholas Whyte on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy Christmas! And thanks for the credit for the Greek.</p>

<p>I was chided by someone else for not including the correct diacriticals; I don't know if this comment box will hold the more accurate version, but here goes:</p>

<p>Ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις ἐκείναις ἐξῆλθεν δόγμα παρὰ Καίσαρος Αὐγούστου ἀπογράφεσθαι πᾶσαν τὴν οἰκουμένην.<br />
     αὕτη ἀπογραφὴ ἐγένετο πρώτη ἡγεμονεύοντος τῆς Συρίας Κυρηνίου.<br />
     καὶ ἐπορεύοντο πάντες ἀπογράφεσθαι, ἕκαστος εἰς τὴν ἑαυτοῦ πόλιν.<br />
     ἀνέβη δὲ καὶ Ἰωσὴφ ἀπὸ τῆς Γαλιλαίας ἐκ πόλεως Ναζαρὲθ εἰς τὴν Ἰουδαίαν εἰς πόλιν Δαυεὶδ ἥτις καλεῖται Βηθλέεμ, διὰ τὸ εἶναι αὐτὸν ἐξ οἴκου καὶ πατριᾶς Δαυείδ,<br />
     ἀπογράψασθαι σὺν Μαριὰμ τῇ ἐμνηστευμένῃ αὐτῷ, οὔσῃ ἐγκύῳ.<br />
Ἐγένετο δὲ ἐν τῷ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἐκεῖ ἐπλήσθησαν αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ τεκεῖν αὐτήν,<br />
     καὶ ἔτεκεν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς τὸν πρωτότοκον, καὶ ἐσπαργάνωσεν αὐτὸν καὶ ἀνέκλινεν αὐτὸν ἐν φάτνῃ, διότι οὐκ ἦν αὐτοῖς τόπος ἐν τῷ καταλύματι.<br />
Καὶ ποιμένες ἦσαν ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ τῇ αὐτῇ ἀγραυλοῦντες καὶ φυλάσσοντες φυλακὰς τῆς νυκτὸς ἐπὶ τὴν ποίμνην αὐτῶν.<br />
     καὶ ἄγγελος κυρίου ἐπέστη αὐτοῖς καὶ δόξα κυρίου περιέλαμψεν αὐτούς, καὶ ἐφοβήθησαν φόβον μέγαν.<br />
     καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ ἄγγελος· μὴ φοβεῖσθε· ἰδοὺ γὰρ εὐαγγελίζομαι ὑμῖν χαρὰν μεγάλην ἥτις ἔσται παντὶ τῷ λαῷ,<br />
     ὅτι ἐτέχθη ὑμῖν σήμερον σωτὴρ ὅς ἐστιν Χριστὸς κύριος ἐν πόλει Δαυείδ·<br />
     καὶ τοῦτο ὑμῖν τὸ σημεῖον, εὑρήσετε βρέφος ἐσπαργανωμένον ἐν φάτνῃ.<br />
     καὶ ἐξαίφνης ἐγένετο σὺν τῷ ἀγγέλῳ πλῆθος στρατιᾶς οὐρανίου αἰνούντων τὸν θεὸν καὶ λεγόντων·<br />
     δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  2:39 AM by Nicholas Whyte&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390797</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:39:22 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #6 from abi</title>
         <description>comment from abi on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merry Christmas (if you celebrate it), or otherwise a wonderful day, to everyone.  This is a day for families, and you guys are certainly one of mine.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  3:57 AM by abi&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390804</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:57:57 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #7 from Mikael Vejdemo Johansson</title>
         <description>comment from Mikael Vejdemo Johansson on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, since I gave that old Swedish translation, my name has changed. I'm now no longer Mikael Johansson, I'm Mikael Vejdemo Johansson. :-)</p>

<p>Secondly, have the same verses. In Sámi:<br />
Lukas 2:<br />
1 Dan ájge tjäjssár Augustus guládahtij gåhttjomav ålles värált galgaj almasjlåhkuj tjáleduvvat. <br />
2 Vuostasj tjáledibme almasjlåhkuj lij dalloj, gå Kvirinius lij Syria ednamhärrán. <br />
3 Gájka mannin ietjasa tjáledittjat, iesj guhtik stádasis. <br />
4 Ja Josef, guhti lij Davida máttos, vuolgij Galilea Nasaretas Judeaj, Davida stádaj Betlehemaj, <br />
5 ietjas tjáledittjat aktan Mariajn gejna lij giláduvvam ja guhti lij iesselissan. <br />
6 Gå dåppe lijga, de ållånij ájgge Mariaj riegádahtátjit, <br />
7 ja bárnes riegádahtij, vuostasjriegádim mánáv, ja giessalij ja krubbuj biejaj, dan diehti gå sunnuj ij lim guossevieson sadje. <br />
8 Dajn dáfojn lidjin soabmása sávttsaälosa iján räjnnuhime. <br />
9 De Härrá ieññgil sijá åvddåj tjuottjadij. Sijá birra Härrá herlukvuohta bájtij ja alvosláhkáj ballá- <br />
jin. <br />
10 Valla ieññgil sidjij javlaj: ”Allit balá. Ávvoságajt mån didjij sárnov, ávov gájkka álmmugij. <br />
11 Didjij le uddni lånestiddje Davida stádan riegádam, sån le Messias, Härrá. <br />
12 Ja dát le märkkan didjij: riegádimmánáv gávnnabihtit giessaluvvam ja kruppon vellahime.” <br />
13 Ja hähkkat lij danna ieññgilijn stuorra almefuovva Jubmelav hievedime: <br />
14 ”Guddne Jubmelij allagisán ja ráfe suv gierugijda ednamin.” <br />
15 Gå ieññgila lidjin sijá lussta almmáj mannam, javllin räjnnuhiddje guhtik guojmmásisá: ”Vuolggup dal Betlehemaj gehtjatjit mij le sjaddam ja majt Härrá le midjij diededam.” <br />
16 Gáhtjos sij Betlehemaj mannin, ja gávnnin Mariav ja Josefav ja mánátjav, guhti lij kruppon. <br />
17 Gå mánáv lidjin vuojnnám, subtsastin majt dán máná birra lidjin gullam. <br />
18 Gájka imálussjin räjnnuhiddjij ságajt. <br />
19 Maria gájkka vájmmusis vuorkkij ja ájádaláj. <br />
20 Räjnnuhiddje máhttsin ja hievedin ja rámmpun Jubmelav dassta majt lidjin gullam ja vuojnnám:gájkka lij nåvti gåktu sidjij lij javladuvvam. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  4:05 AM by Mikael Vejdemo Johansson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390805</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 04:05:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #8 from Kip W</title>
         <description>comment from Kip W on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll be darned. Lord Buckley seems to have skipped this part.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  9:26 AM by Kip W&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390823</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 09:26:08 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #9 from Serge</title>
         <description>comment from Serge on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Look after the universe for me. I've put a lot of work into it."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 10:34 AM by Serge&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390829</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:34:18 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #10 from Jon Baker</title>
         <description>comment from Jon Baker on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In “The Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha”, an unabashed recruiting tool for Christian missionaries, which is a “translation” into a bad approximation of “yeshivish”, which is the patois (argot?) spoken by religious Jews while learning Torah, by inserting Hebrew words for technical terms (e.g. bris not c___umcision):</p>

<p><b>2</b> |1| And it came about at that time that a dvar malchut (decree) was sent out from Caesar Augustus to register everyone in the entire Roman Empire.<br />
|2| This mifkad (census) was before that taken while Quirinius was governor in Syria.<br />
|3| And everyone was traveling to register, each to his own shtetl.<br />
|4| Now Yosef [ben Dovid] also went up from the Galil, from the shtetl of Natzeret, to Yehudah, to the Ir Dovid (City of David), which is called Beit- Lechem, because he was of the mishpochah and Bais of Dovid.<br />
|5| And Yosef [ben Dovid] went up to register with Miryam, who had been given to him in erusin (betrothal) and who was with child.<br />
|6| And it came about, while they were there, the yamim (days) were fulfilled for Miryam to give birth.<br />
|7| And she bore her ben, her Bechor (firstborn); and she wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in an evus (animal feeding trough), because there was no place for them in the malon (inn).<br />
|8| And ro’im (shepherds) were in the same region, living outside in the open air, and keeping shomer over their eder (flock) balailah.<br />
|9| And, suddenly, a malach Hashem stood before them, and the kavod Hashem shone around them; and they were afraid with a yirah gedolah (great fear).<br />
|10| And the malach said to them, Do not have pachad (fear, terror); for hinei I announce Besuras HaGeulah to you of great simcha (joy) which will be for kol Am Berit (all the People of the Covenant);<br />
|11| Because hayom, in Ir Dovid, has been born to you a Moshia (Go’el, Savior, Oisleizer), who is Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach HaAdon. [YESHAYAH 9:5(6)]<br />
|12| And this will be HaOt [The Sign] to you: you will find a small child, an infant, wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in an evus. [SHMUEL ALEF 2:34; MELACHIM BAIS 19:29; TEHILLIM 86:17; YESHAYAH 7:14]<br />
|13| And, suddenly, there was with the malach a multitude of the Tzivos Hashem, the Tzivos HaShomayim (Armies or Hosts of Heaven) praising Hashem, and saying,<br />
|14| Kavod to Hashem in the Highest; and on haaretz shalom among Bnei Adam kavvanah tovah (of good intention). [YESHAYAH 9:5-6; 52:7; 53:5; MICHOH 5:4-5]<br />
|15| And it came about, when the malachim withdrew from them to Shomayim, the roim (shepherds) were saying to one another, Let us go now up to Beit-Lechem and let us see this thing that has come about which Hashem has made known to us.<br />
|16| And they came in haste and found both Miryam and Yosef [ben Dovid], and the child was lying in the evus (animal feeding trough, see Isa 53:7 on Moshiach the Seh).<br />
|17| And when the roim saw this, they made known the dvar concerning this yeled which had been told them.<br />
|18| And all who heard it were amazed about the things which were told them by the roim (shepherds).<br />
|19| But Miryam was treasuring up all these things, pondering them in her lev.<br />
|20| And the roim went back, and as they returned, they cried, Baruch Hashem! They gave kavod to G-d for all that they had heard and seen, just as it had been foretold to them.</p>

<p>[And then note, that because Jesus was a Jew, he had a bris on the 8th day, as all (healthy) Jewish boys do (or should. Wherefore Debbie & I call New Years Day “Chrisbris”]:</p>

<p>|21| And when shemonah yamim were completed for his bris milah, YEHOSHUA was given as SHMO, which he was called by the malach, before he was conceived in the womb. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 10:48 AM by Jon Baker&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390830</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:48:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #11 from B. Durbin</title>
         <description>comment from B. Durbin on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*yawns*</p>

<p>Rest ye merry, folks.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 11:53 AM by B. Durbin&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390839</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:53:39 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #12 from kid bitzer</title>
         <description>comment from kid bitzer on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wot, no esperanto?</p>

<p>hmmm...must look around....</p>

<p>but if you find it first, go ahead and post it-- i won't be wroth. </p>

<p>the other versions are gorgeous, teresa.   a few word break problems with luther's german, i think?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 12:10 PM by kid bitzer&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390840</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:10:23 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #13 from kid bitzer</title>
         <description>comment from kid bitzer on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 Kaj en tiuj tagoj eliris dekreto de Cezaro Auxgusto, ke la tuta mondo estu registrita. 2 Cxi tiu estis la unua registrado, farita, kiam Kirenio estis reganto de Sirio. 3 Kaj cxiuj iris, por esti registritaj, cxiu al sia urbo. 4 Kaj Jozef ankaux supreniris el Galileo, el la urbo Nazaret, en Judujon, al la urbo de David, kiu estas nomata Bet- Lehxem, cxar li estis el la domo kaj familio de David, 5 por esti registrita kun sia fiancxino Maria, kiu estis graveda. 6 Kaj dum ili estis tie, venis la tagoj por sxia akusxo. 7 Kaj sxi naskis sian unuan filon, kaj sxi cxirkauxvindis lin kaj kusxigis lin en staltrogon, cxar ne estis loko por ili en la gastejo. 8 Kaj en tiu sama regiono estis pasxtistoj, kiuj kamplogxis kaj nokte gardis sian gregon. 9 Kaj angxelo de la Eternulo alstaris apud ili, kaj la gloro de la Eternulo brilis cxirkaux ili, kaj ili timis per granda timo. 10 Kaj la angxelo diris al ili: Ne timu; cxar jen mi venigas al vi bonan sciigon de granda gxojo, kiu estos al la tuta popolo; 11 cxar hodiaux estas naskita por vi, en la urbo de David, Savanto, kiu estas Kristo, la Sinjoro. 12 Kaj jen la signo por vi: vi trovos infaneton, cxirkauxvinditan kaj kusxantan en staltrogo. 13 Kaj subite estis kun la angxelo amaso de la cxiela armeo, lauxdante Dion, kaj dirante: 14 Gloro al Dio en la supera alto, Kaj sur la tero paco, inter homoj Difavoro. </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009 12:27 PM by kid bitzer&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390843</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:27:12 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #14 from Lizzy L</title>
         <description>comment from Lizzy L on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glory to God Most High!</p>

<p>My parish choir sang <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomtullis/3115205050/" rel="nofollow">this</a> at 8 am Mass today. It rocked the house! </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  1:12 PM by Lizzy L&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390848</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:12:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #15 from Mark D.</title>
         <description>comment from Mark D. on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"A shepe IS a peryllous beste"!</p>

<p><em>Ideo, O, O, in excelsis Deo!</em></p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  1:34 PM by Mark D.&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390850</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:34:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #16 from Lois Fundis</title>
         <description>comment from Lois Fundis on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teresa, and everyone else who contributed, thanks for all these texts. I enjoyed working through the various languages to see how much I could recognize. Among other things, I found myself wondering what Linus would sound like in Anglo-Saxon.</p>

<p>Especial thanks for including the link to Jo's story about St. Joseph, which I had not read in awhile and was just wonderful. </p>

<p>Heading off to my sister's house now...<br />
Merry Christmas to everyone who is celebrating today, and a happy and peaceful day to all here in the fluorosphere (and elsewhere, too).<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  1:59 PM by Lois Fundis&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390852</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:59:58 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #17 from Johan Larson</title>
         <description>comment from Johan Larson on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh. The Swedish translation and the English don't quite agree.</p>

<p>"Ära i höjden åt Gud<br />
och på jorden fred <br />
åt dem han har utvalt."</p>

<p>Translating that somewhat literally:</p>

<p>Glory in the highest to God<br />
and on Earth peace<br />
to those he has selected.</p>

<p>Where did that last bit about the selected come from? Sounds Calvinist.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  2:00 PM by Johan Larson&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390853</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:00:07 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #18 from Bjorn</title>
         <description>comment from Bjorn on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Icelandic translation of 1540. Not much has changed.</p>

<p>En það bar til á þeim dögum að það boð gekk út frá keisaranum Ágústo það heimurinn allur skyldi skattskrifast. Og þessi skattur hófst fyrst upp hjá Kýreno sem þá var landstjórnari í Sýria. Og allir fóru að tjá sig, hver til sinnar borgar. Þá fór og Jósef af Galílea úr borginni Naðaret upp í Júdeam, til Davíðs borgar, sú er kallast Betlehem, af því að hann var af húsi og kyni Davíðs, að hann tjáði sig þar meður Maríu, sinni festarkvon óléttri.</p>

<p>En það gjörðist þá þau voru þar að þeir dagar fullnuðust eð hún skyldi fæða. Og hún fæddi sinn frumgetinn son og vafði hann í reifum og lagði hann niður í jötuna því að hún fékk ekkert annað rúm í herberginu.</p>

<p>Og fjárhirðar voru þar í sama byggðarlagi um grandana við fjárhúsin, sem varðveittu og vöktu yfir hjörð sinni. Og sjá, að engill Drottins stóð hjá þeim, og Guðs birti ljómaði kringum þá. Og þeir urðu af miklum ótta hræddir, og engillinn sagði til þeirra: Eigi skulu þér hræðast, sjáið, því að eg boða yður mikinn fögnuð, þann er sker öllum lýð, því í dag er yður lausnarinn fæddur, sá að er Kristur Drottinn, í borg Davíðs. Og hafið það til merkis: Þér munu finna barnið í reifum vafið og lagt vera í jötuna. Og jafnskjótt þá var þar hjá englinum mikill fjöldi himneskra hersveita sem lofuðu Guð og sögðu: Dýrð sé Guði í upphæðum og friður á jörðu og mönnum %góðvilji.*</p>

<p>Og þá er englarnir fóru frá þeim aftur til himins, töluðu hirðarnir sín á milli: Göngu vær allt til Betlehem og sjáum þau merki er þar hafa skeð og Drottinn hefir kunngjört oss. Og þeir komu með skunda og fundu Maríu og Jósef og barnið liggja í jötunni. En þá er þeir höfðu það séð, víðfrægðu þeir það orð út sem þeim var sagt af þessu barni. Og allir þeir það heyrðu, undruðust það hvað þeim var af hirðurunum sagt. En María varðveitti öll þessi orð og rótfesti í sínu hjarta. Og fjárhirðarnir sneru aftur, dýrkandi og lofandi Guð um allt það hvað þeir höfðu heyrt og séð og eftir því sem þeim var til sagt.*</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  2:53 PM by Bjorn&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390856</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:53:03 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #19 from Jon Baker</title>
         <description>comment from Jon Baker on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the versions disagree about the motive for the return to Bethlehem: did Cesar decree a tax, or a description, or a census?</p>

<p>Biblically, of course, the census of Israel was taken by a half-shekel head tax.  Which was obtained by foreigners from money changers at the Temple, since the text requires a half of a silver shekel, local currency, not some universal currency.  Which process, of course, Jesus famously disrupted, for what he seemed to feel were abuses of the system.</p>

<p>The process is described in the first two chapters of Mishnah tractate Shekalim, <a href="http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Shekalim.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>

<p>I suppose Roman censuses were similar?  Collect a standard coin per person, and the number of coins equals the number of people?  Apparently not, their censuses were like ours, in that taxation was based on the census, rather than the mechanism of the census.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  2:57 PM by Jon Baker&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390859</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:57:46 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #20 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy, happy, happy day to all.</p>

<p>I can't find the Luke text in Galician, but here's John 1, i-xviii in Galician:</p>

<p>No principio existía a Palabra, e a Palabra estaba onda Deus, e a Palabra era Deus. Ela estaba no principio onda Deus. Todo foi feito por ela, e sen ela non se fixo nada do que foi feito. Nela estaba a vida, e a vida era a luz dos homes; a luz aluma na tebra, e a tebra non a deu apagado.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Houbo un home mandado por Deus: o seu nome era Xoán. Este veu de testemuña para dar testemuño da luz, para que todos cresen por el. Non era el a luz, senón que veu para dar testemuño da luz. A Palabra era a verdadeira luz que aluma a todo home que vén a este mundo. Ela estaba no mundo, e o mundo foi feito por ela, pero o mundo non a recoñeceu. Veu á súa propiedade, e os seus non a acolleron. Pero a cantos a recibiron, -ós que cren no seu nome- déulle-lo poder de seren fillos de Deus. Estes, non naceron do sangue, nin da vontade da carne, nin da vontade do home, senón de Deus.</p>

<p>E a Palabra fíxose carne, e plantou entre nós a súa tenda, e nós vímo-la súa gloria, gloria coma de Unixénito que vén do Pai, cheo de gracia e de verdade. Xoán dá testemuño del, exclamando: Este évos de quen eu dixen: "O que vén detrás miña, pasa diante miña, pois existía primeiro ca min". E da súa abundancia recibimos todos nós gracia e máis gracia. Pois a Lei deuse por medio de Moisés; a gracia e a verdade realizáronse por Xesús Cristo. A Deus ninguén o viu; o Unixénito, que está no seo do Pai, foi quen nolo revelou.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  3:45 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390863</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390863</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 15:45:27 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #21 from Thomas</title>
         <description>comment from Thomas on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johan Larson:</p>

<p>The change from "peace on earth, good will toward men" to "peace on earth to people[1] of good will" or "to people whom God favors" was motivated by textual accuracy rather than dogma. In the oldest available Greek texts, "good will/favor" is genitive rather than nominative, leading to "people of good will". (Nicholas Whyte's post above has the genitive 'εὐδοκίας').  It's one of the many cases where the earlier English translation looks better than the original.</p>

<p>At least in the US, the use of the apparently Calvinist modern translations would correlate negatively with actual Calvinism. </p>

<p><br />
[1] Yes, "people" is a more literal translation than "men" for "ἀνθρώποις"</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  4:35 PM by Thomas&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390865</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390865</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 16:35:43 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #22 from rea</title>
         <description>comment from rea on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And the versions disagree about the motive for the return to Bethlehem: did Cesar decree a tax, or a description, or a census?</i></p>

<p>It would have to be a census, because Roman taxation was conducted by selling tax farmers the right to collect taxes in a particular district, rather than directly by the government.  This is why tax collectors (St. Matthew) have such a bad reputation in the New Testament.</p>

<p>But I hope no one thinks I'm lacking the spirit of the season if I point out that this is an improbable piece of stage business to get Jesus of Nazareth born in Bethlehem, as required by the prophecy.  Imagine requiring everyone in the empire to go to where their ancestors lived a thousand years before, in order to be accurately counted! </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  5:14 PM by rea&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390870</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 17:14:50 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #23 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the first translation into Welsh, 1588 (typos probably nine):</p>

<p>[1] Bu hefyd yn y dyddiau hynny fyned gorchymyn allan oddi wrth Augustus Caesar i drethu yr hollu syd.<br />
[2] (A'r trethiad ymma, a wnaethbwyd gyntaf pan oedd Cyrenius yn rhâglaw ar Syria)<br />
[3] A phawb a aethant i'w trethu bob un i'w ddigas ei hun.<br />
[4] Ac aeth Joseph o Galilaea o dref Nazareth i Judaea, i dref Dafydd yr hon a elwir Bethlehem (am ei fod o dŷ, a thŷlwyth Dafydd):<br />
[5] I'w drethu gyd â Mair, yr hon a ddyweddiesid yn wraig iddo, yr hon oedd yn feichiog.<br />
[6] A by tra 'r oeddynt hwy yno, gyflawni ei dyddiau hi i escor.<br />
[7] Ac hi aescorodd ar ei mab cynta-anedic, ac a'i rhwymodd ef mewn cadachau, ac a'i ir rhoddes yn y preseb, am nad oedd iddynt le yn y lletty.<br />
[8] Ac yr oedd yn y wlad honno fugeiliaid yn gorwedd allan, ac yn gwilied eu yraidd liw nos.<br />
[9] Ac wele angel yr Arglwydd a safodd gerllaw iddynt, a gogoniant yr Arglwydd a ddiscleiriodd o'u hamgylch, ac ofni yn ddirfawr a wnaethant.<br />
[10] Yna yr angel a ddywedodd wrthynt, nac ofnwch, canys yr wyf yn mynegy i chwi lawennydd mawr, yr hwn a fydd i'r holl bobl:<br />
[11] Geni i chwi heddyw geidwad, yn ninas Dafydd: yr hwn ydyw Cryst yr Arglwydd.<br />
[12] A hyn [sydd] arwydd i chwi, chwi a gewch y dŷn bach wedi ei rwymo mewn cadachau a'i roddi yn y preseb.<br />
[13] Ac yn ddisymmwth yr oedd gyd â'r angel nifeirimawr o luoedd nefol yn moliannu Duw gan ddywedyd,<br />
[14] Gogoniant i Dduw yn yr ucheloer, a thangneddyf ar y ddaiar, ac i ddynion ewyllys da.<br />
[15] Ac wedi darfod i'r angelion fyned oddi wrthynti'r nefoedd, yna y bugeiliaid a ddynwedasant wrth eu gilydd:awn hey Bethlehem, a gweldwn y pethhyn a ddangosodd yr Arglwydd i ni.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  6:07 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390874</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390874</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:07:56 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #24 from David Harmon</title>
         <description>comment from David Harmon on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P J Evans: #23:  <i>typos probably nine</i></p>

<p>Counting that one?  ;-)</p>

<p>Thomas #21:  <i>The change from "peace on earth, good will toward men" to "peace on earth to people[1] of good will" or "to people whom God favors" was motivated by textual accuracy rather than dogma.</i></p>

<p>It seems to me that it's the folk of good will who <i>deserve</i> peace....</p>

<p>Jon Baker #10:  <i>Wherefore Debbie & I call New Years Day “Chrisbris”</i>  &lt;grin><br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  6:30 PM by David Harmon&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390876</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:30:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #25 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Oh</em> yeah!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  7:15 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390885</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390885</guid>
         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:15:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #26 from Sam Kelly</title>
         <description>comment from Sam Kelly on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nowhere else would I find that someone had already posted the Welsh translation I was looking up.  Instead, have a <a href="http://www.beibl.net" rel="nofollow">modern colloquial translation</a> by Arfon Jones, and may there be goodwill and peace to all.</p>

<p>[1] Tua’r un adeg dyma Cesar Awgwstws yn gorchymyn cynnal cyfrifiad drwy'r Ymerodraeth Rufeinig i gyd. ([2] Hwn oedd y cyfrifiad cyntaf, gafodd ei gynnal cyn bod Cwiriniws yn llywodraethwr Syria.) [3] Roedd pawb yn mynd adre i’r trefi lle cawson nhw eu geni, i gofrestru ar gyfer y cyfrifiad.<br />
[4] Felly gan fod Joseff yn perthyn i deulu’r Brenin Dafydd, gadawodd Nasareth yn Galilea, a mynd i gofrestru yn Jwdea – yn Bethlehem, hynny ydy tref Dafydd. [5] Aeth yno gyda Mair oedd yn mynd i fod yn wraig iddo, ac a oedd erbyn hynny’n disgwyl babi. [6] Tra roedden nhw yno daeth yn amser i’r babi gael ei eni, [7] a dyna lle cafodd ei phlentyn cyntaf ei eni – bachgen bach. Dyma hi'n lapio cadachau geni yn ofalus amdano, a'i osod i orwedd mewn cafn ar gyfer bwydo anifeiliaid. Doedd dim llety iddyn nhw aros ynddo.</p>

<p>Y Bugeiliaid a'r Angylion</p>

<p>[8] Yn ardal Bethlehem roedd bugeiliaid allan drwy’r nos yn yr awyr agored yn gofalu am eu defaid. [9] Yn sydyn dyma nhw’n gweld un o angylion yr Arglwydd, ac roedd ysblander yr Arglwydd fel golau llachar o'u cwmpas nhw. Roedden nhw wedi dychryn am eu bywydau. [10] Ond dyma'r angel yn dweud wrthyn nhw, "Peidiwch bod ofn. Mae gen i newyddion da i chi! Newyddion fydd yn gwneud pobl ym mhobman yn llawen iawn. [11] Mae eich Achubwr wedi cael ei eni heddiw, yn Bethlehem (tref y Brenin Dafydd). Ie, y Meseia! Yr Arglwydd! [12] Dyma sut byddwch chi’n ei nabod e: Dewch o hyd iddo yn fabi bach wedi ei lapio mewn cadachau ac yn gorwedd mewn cafn bwydo anifeiliaid."<br />
[13] Yn sydyn dyma filoedd o angylion eraill yn dod i’r golwg, roedd fel petai holl angylion y nefoedd yno yn addoli Duw<br />
[14] "Gogoniant i Dduw yn y nefoedd uchaf,<br />
a heddwch ar y ddaear islaw <br />
a bendith Duw ar bobl."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  8:35 PM by Sam Kelly&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390894</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:35:17 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #27 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>26<br />
Well, I transcribed it from <a href="http://cairsweb.llgc.org.uk/images/bwm/bwm00942.jpg" rel="nofollow">this</a> image <a href="http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=292" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>

<p>*grumble* "Blackletter. Why does it always have to be blackletter?" *grumble*</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  9:00 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390895</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:00:20 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #28 from fidelio</title>
         <description>comment from fidelio on 25.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://unbound.biola.edu/index.cfm?method=searchResults.doSearch" rel="nofollow">Breton</a></p>

<p>1. En amzer-se e voe embannet ul lezenn a-berzh Kezar-Aogust, evit ma vije graet ar gont eus tud ar bed holl. <br />
2. Ar gont kentañ-se a voe graet e-pad ma oa Kiriniuz gouarner Siria. <br />
3. Dre-se an holl a yae evit lakaat o anv, pep hini en e gêr. <br />
4. Jozef ivez a bignas eus Galilea da Judea, eus kêr Nazared da gêr David anvet Betlehem, dre ma oa eus tiegezh hag eus familh David, <br />
5. evit reiñ e anv gant Mari e wreg, hag a oa dougerez. <br />
6.  E-pad ma oant eno, an amzer ma tlee gwilioudiñ a erruas, <br />
7. hag e c'hanas he mab kentañ-ganet, hag e mailhuras anezhañ, hag e lakaas anezhañ en ur c'hraou, abalamour ne oa ket plas evito en ostaleri. <br />
8. Bez' e oa er memes korn-bro mêsaerien a gouske er parkeier, hag a ziwalle o loened e-pad beilhadennoù an noz. <br />
9. Setu un ael eus an Aotrou en em ziskouezas dezho ha gloar an Aotrou a lugernas en-dro dezho, hag o devoe ur spont bras. <br />
10. Neuze an ael a lavaras dezho: N'ho pet ket aon, rak setu e tegasan deoc'h ur c'heloù mat, a vo un abeg a levenez vras evit an holl bobl, <br />
11. rak ganet eo hiziv deoc'h, e kêr David, ur Salver, hag a zo ar C'hrist, an Aotrou. <br />
12. Setu amañ ur sin deoc'h: c'hwi a gavo ur bugel bihan mailhuret ha gourvezet en ur c'hraou. <br />
13. Ha kerkent e voe gant an ael ul lod bras eus arme an neñv, o veuliñ hag o lavarout: <br />
14. Gloar da Zoue el lec'hioù uhel-meurbet, ha peoc'h war an douar e-touez an dud karet gantañ! <br />
15. Pa voe en em dennet an aeled diganto en neñv, ar vêsaerien a lavaras an eil d'egile: Deomp eta betek Betlehem, ha gwelomp ar pezh a zo c'hoarvezet, hag en deus an Aotrou roet da anavezout deomp. <br />
16. Mont a rejont eta buan di, hag e kavjont Mari, Jozef hag ar bugel bihan a oa gourvezet er c'hraou. <br />
17. O vezañ e welet, e tisklêrjont ar pezh a oa bet lavaret dezho diwar-benn ar bugel bihan-se. <br />
18. An holl re o c'hleve a oa souezhet bras eus ar pezh a oa bet lavaret dezho gant ar vêsaerien. <br />
19. Mari a vire an holl draoù-se, o tistremen anezho en he c'halon. <br />
20. Hag ar vêsaerien a zistroas, en ur reiñ gloar ha meuleudi da Zoue, evit kement o devoa klevet ha gwelet, hervez ma oa bet lavaret dezho. </p>

<p><br />
 Thank you, Teresa and Patrick, for keeping open house here, and thanks as well to your deputies fellow moderators, abi, Jim and Avram.</p>

<p>A good and hopeful holiday season to everyone here, regular, lurker, or drop-in, and may the new year be a better trip around than any we have known before.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 25, 2009  9:58 PM by fidelio&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390910</link>
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         <pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:58:57 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #29 from David Goldfarb</title>
         <description>comment from David Goldfarb on 26.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas@21: the verb εὐδοκ-έω can also mean "be pleased with" -- it's the verb used when the Holy Spirit proclaims, "This is my only begotten son, in whom I am well pleased."  The form in Luke could be a participle.  Hence the translation "to men with whom he is pleased."  (Seen in the Lowland Scots translation, among others.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 26, 2009 12:07 AM by David Goldfarb&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390931</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:07:35 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #30 from elise</title>
         <description>comment from elise on 26.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is still the day itself for me, as I have not been to bed yet, so therefore Merry Christmas to them as keeps it.</p>

<p>(And now, to me a good night, I think.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 26, 2009  9:11 AM by elise&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390965</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390965</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 09:11:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Texts, 2009 -- comment #31 from Thomas</title>
         <description>comment from Thomas on 26.Dec.09</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Goldfarb @29:</p>

<p><em>Hence the translation "to men with whom he is pleased."</em></p>

<p>Yes, although that has a similar limiting sense as the other translation based on the genitive (peace just to some people). </p>

<p>It's amusing to note that the LOLcat Bible has one of the modern, more textually accurate versions, "peace fer doodz he luffs!", and the Conservapedia 'Conservative Bible Project' doesn't.  <br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted December 26, 2009 12:30 PM by Thomas&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390991</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012041.html#390991</guid>
         <pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:30:09 -0500</pubDate>
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