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      <title>Making Light :: Penny Wise :: comments</title>
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      <description>Language, fraud, folly, truth, history, and knitting. Et cetera.</description>
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      <title>Penny Wise</title>
      <description>It's time to compare and contrast: 9/11 security could cost $21 billion WASHINGTON (CNN)--A bill to enact the 9/11 Commission...</description>
      <content:encoded>It's time to compare and contrast: 9/11 security could cost $21 billion WASHINGTON (CNN)--A bill to enact the 9/11 Commission...</content:encoded>
      <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html</link>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #1 from Matthew</title>
         <description>comment from Matthew on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can't help but think the Republicans are penny wise and "We're taking a pounding!" foolish.</p>

<p>Its a bit long to be a good pun, but it pops into my head whenever I see how much money the war is costing.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 11:21 AM by Matthew&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170127</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:21:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #2 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question: What, exactly, is the Republican Party smoking?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 11:36 AM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170132</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:36:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #3 from JC</title>
         <description>comment from JC on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this is true of all politicians, but it's been clear that the Republicans have been more interested in playing political games than actual governance since at least the start of W's administration. That they refused to clear up the false rumors of vandalism at the very beginning of their administration was a harbinger of things to come. (It bugged me at the time that rather than just saying if their offices had been vandalled or not, they kept saying that they had no comment. I mean, they of all people should know whether or not it had happened.) They decided that creating FUD and tarring the outgoing administration was more important than setting the record straight and doing the actual job of governance. It's been that way ever since.</p>

<p>The Bush administration clearly wants the surge so that they can push the inevitable withdrawl into the next administration. This way, Bush isn't tagged with the loss. Why so many Republicans are following him on this, I'm not sure. (Maybe they're dead certain that a Democrat will win the White House in 2008 and want to tag Democrats with the loss?)</p>

<p>If you look at it solely in terms of political gamesmanship, it makes some sort of sense. If you look at it in terms of governing a country, it's appalling.</p>

<p>What I find bizarre is that the President thinks it's wrong to repeat his own policies back to him. He had made it quite clear that he intended to get the troops over to Iraq before anyone could do anything about it. That way, the legislature would be forced to fund the troops lest they be smeared as being against the troops. Nancy Pelosi called Bush on this and the response was that <em>she</em> was playing political games. Say what?<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 11:52 AM by JC&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170135</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:52:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #4 from R. M. Kehrli</title>
         <description>comment from R. M. Kehrli on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GOP will probably get away with spinning it as a bad thing, since most people won't actually compare relative costs.  I imagine most of them won't go much further than a passing, "Wow, that IS a lot of money."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 12:03 PM by R. M. Kehrli&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170137</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:03:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #5 from Claude Muncey</title>
         <description>comment from Claude Muncey on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Congress, the press, and the bureaucracy too often focus on how much money or effort is spent, rather than whether the money or effort actually achieves the announced goal.</i> -- Donald Rumsfeld </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 12:26 PM by Claude Muncey&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170140</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:26:13 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #6 from Bruce Adelsohn</title>
         <description>comment from Bruce Adelsohn on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://redaxe.livejournal.com/282172.html" rel="nofollow">I wrote about exactly this contrast this morning</a>. You say it better, more clearly, and with rational recommendations. Thank you. (Edited my entry with a link back here.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007 12:45 PM by Bruce Adelsohn&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170145</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:45:04 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #7 from Spherical Time</title>
         <description>comment from Spherical Time on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, when will we be able to say "We told you so?" about the troop surge?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  3:42 PM by Spherical Time&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170171</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 15:42:16 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #8 from A.R.Yngve</title>
         <description>comment from A.R.Yngve on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, wait! Can't you see that if you start spending money on <i>actually preventing terrorism</i>, that will only embolden terrorists! You need to disembolden terrorism by... by... emdoing something.<br />
</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  4:38 PM by A.R.Yngve&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170180</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 16:38:45 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #9 from abi</title>
         <description>comment from abi on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You discourage terrorists by showing them that the <em>real</em> money is in war profiteering.</p>

<p>This requires that you so thoroughly lack empathy and understanding that you can't conceive of any action that does not stem from greed.</p>

<p>I'm not seeing a hole in the logic yet.</p>

<p>It's been a bad day.  I think I may be being overly cynical.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  4:46 PM by abi&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170182</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 16:46:10 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #10 from albatross</title>
         <description>comment from albatross on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am deeply skeptical that the extra homeland security type stuff will make us any safer.  But at only a tenth the money cost of the Iraq screwup, it's probably a bargain.  (And the side effects will be extra costs and hassles, not thousands of dead Americans and hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis.)  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  6:42 PM by albatross&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170192</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:42:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #11 from Aconite</title>
         <description>comment from Aconite on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fragano Ledgister@2: <i>My question: What, exactly, is the Republican Party smoking?</i></p>

<p>Undoubtedly something the Republican Party has been condemning on moral grounds for years, but which everyone in the press corps and in DC knows about.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  6:56 PM by Aconite&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170197</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:56:25 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #12 from ethan</title>
         <description>comment from ethan on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aconite, they've been smoking The Gays?  Dirty!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  7:00 PM by ethan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170199</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #13 from ethan</title>
         <description>comment from ethan on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to double-post, but I'd just like to point out that albatross and Aconite left comments one after another, and when I responded to one <i>I got the name right</i>!  I can change!</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  7:01 PM by ethan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170201</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:01:17 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #14 from P J Evans</title>
         <description>comment from P J Evans on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“This bill was rushed to the floor without the Democratic leadership giving us any indication of its massive cost—and now we know why,” King said in a written statement. “Had we known [the cost] before the bill was brought to the floor, it would have been a different story.”</i></p>

<p>Funny, this wasn't a problem when <i>they</i> were doing it. Another case of IOKIYAR?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  8:30 PM by P J Evans&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170209</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 20:30:48 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #15 from James D. Macdonald</title>
         <description>comment from James D. Macdonald on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IOKIYAR = It's OK If You're A Republican.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  9:07 PM by James D. Macdonald&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170213</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:07:14 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #16 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  3.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aconite #11: They've been smoking the pages? Oh, dear me.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  3, 2007  9:26 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170216</link>
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         <pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 21:26:25 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #17 from Wakboth</title>
         <description>comment from Wakboth on  4.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember people saying that the US should have just bought Saddam off: billion dollars and a guaranteed retirement in some nice tropical paradise.</p>

<p>Would it not, in the long run, be vastly cheaper to offer a similar deal to Bush & co., on the condition that if they ever again so much as make political noise, they will be immediately extradited to Iraq with their names tattooed all over their body in every local language?</p>

<p>-- Wakboth</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  4, 2007  3:57 AM by Wakboth&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170261</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 03:57:21 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #18 from Craig R.</title>
         <description>comment from Craig R. on  4.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm, isn;t this the same set of recommendations that has been studied so exaustivly by the Republicans when they were actually in control of the House and Senate?</p>

<p>And they have the nerve ti lie so blatantly about not knowing what wqas in the bill, and the cost?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  4, 2007  5:51 AM by Craig R.&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170266</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 05:51:09 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #19 from Neil Willcox</title>
         <description>comment from Neil Willcox on  4.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethan @#12 I'm reminded that saying you're going outside to smoke a fag mean something <i>completely</i> different in the US than it does here.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  4, 2007  1:00 PM by Neil Willcox&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170317</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:00:46 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #20 from ethan</title>
         <description>comment from ethan on  4.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil Willcox, now I'm reminded by <i>you</i> of when I was in high school and was the only one who knew who Pulp were (yes, I was in high school when <i>Different Class</i> was new; yes, that makes me a small child), and everyone thought the line "Smoke some fags and play some pool" from "Common People" was wicked gay.  Of course, they never heard the bit in "Pencil Skirt" about "I've kissed your mother twice/Now I'm working on your dad."</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  4, 2007  1:21 PM by ethan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170321</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:21:13 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #21 from Aconite</title>
         <description>comment from Aconite on  4.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ethan@13; Fragano Ledgister@16:  I see my cunning plan of going around without socks on so the root system, in contrast to webbing, is clearly visible has borne fruit.  </p>

<p>Since it's a fricking 6 degrees here before wind chill is factored in, I'm glad to know my sacrifice has not been in vain.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  4, 2007  8:41 PM by Aconite&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170394</link>
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         <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 20:41:23 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #22 from ethan</title>
         <description>comment from ethan on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just had a thought, and I guess this is the best place to put it:</p>

<p>Has anyone pointed out yet that Bush is now responsible for more American deaths than the 9/11 attacks?  (Of course, in total number of deaths he passed 9/11 <i>long</i> ago, but the number of American deaths is one hell of a symbolic line to have crossed.)</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  2:02 PM by ethan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170540</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:02:47 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #23 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was noted on WNYC the day it first happened, ethan.  "Today the number of Americans who have died in Iraq surpassed the total number of 9/11 victims" or something.</p>

<p>Please do remember, however, that while 9/11 happened in the US, not all the victims were American (in the usual sense).  The victims came from every language, people, and nation.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  2:16 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170548</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:16:42 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #24 from ethan</title>
         <description>comment from ethan on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I know the victims were from everywhere.  I should have noted that in what I said.  Apologies!</p>

<p>It's good that people have noted the numbers, which I guess I missed somehow.  But has anyone pointed out that <i>Bush</i> killed them?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  3:38 PM by ethan&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170570</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:38:06 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #25 from Xopher</title>
         <description>comment from Xopher on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've been saying for at least a couple of years that he should be in prison for Depraved Indifference Murder.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  3:58 PM by Xopher&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170574</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:58:07 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #26 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aconite #21: Isn't that dangerous.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  6:39 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170602</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:39:17 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #27 from Aconite</title>
         <description>comment from Aconite on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fragano Ledgister@26:</p>

<p>Why, yes.  Yes, it is.  The things I do for you people, just so you don't end up with acotross around your necks.  Such is my humanitarian spirit.  </p>

<p>If anyone wants to knit me a pair of transparent socks, that would go a long way towards mitigating my misery.   This really isn't the right time of year for root-pruning.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007  8:06 PM by Aconite&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170615</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:06:04 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #28 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  5.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aconite #27: I have here a couple of tailors, fresh from the service of an emperor in a distant land, who say they can do invisible clothes, not just socks. Would that solve your problem?</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  5, 2007 10:12 PM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170632</link>
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         <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:12:28 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #29 from Aconite</title>
         <description>comment from Aconite on  7.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fragano Ledgister@28:  Er, thank you, but I believe those tailors did some work for a would-be emperor in a not-so-distant land, too, and I can't say I was overly impressed.  I know it must be difficult to design a cut that flatters a butt with a head in it, but I thought their hat selection was lacking,</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  7, 2007  8:21 AM by Aconite&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170814</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170814</guid>
         <pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 08:21:37 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #30 from steve</title>
         <description>comment from steve on  8.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why commit to spending $21 billion for something an expert panel suggests would help solve the problem, if you can spend 20 or 100 times that* on a massive boodoggle that you have no reason to believe might help?  Scale is crucial.  You need truly massive operation if the loss of 353 tons of cash is to be seen as being so insignificant that it will barely rate a footnote in any account. What could those Democrats be thinking! </p>

<p>*The cost of the war is much higher than what has been budgeted and spent.  It is wearing out equipment - the equipment that doesn't crash and burn - and causing permanent health problem for troops.  Once all these are factored in, it represents a commitment, so far,  of between $1 and  $2 trillion - depending on the source. The Guardian is one.  </p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  8, 2007  2:16 AM by steve&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170955</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170955</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 02:16:33 -0500</pubDate>
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         <title>Penny Wise -- comment #31 from Fragano Ledgister</title>
         <description>comment from Fragano Ledgister on  8.Feb.07</description>
         <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aconite #29: OTOH, they do a great flight-suit.</p>]]>
	 &lt;p&gt;Posted February  8, 2007 11:45 AM by Fragano Ledgister&lt;/p&gt;</content:encoded>
         <link>http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170987</link>
         <guid isPermaLink="true">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008627.html#170987</guid>
         <pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:45:52 -0500</pubDate>
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